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~$50 Exhuast Mod - Experiment
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michaelp
Loves thy '86


Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5496
Location: West Chester, PA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twisted`Z wrote:
My car almost sounds like the one in michaelp's video. And what I meant by the formula 1 sound was like what nismopu said, it has a somewhat exotic sound to it.


So I rest my case, like my car did as a NA, it sounds like ass.
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Twisted`Z
I know some things Z31


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
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Location: Sierra Vista, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michaelp wrote:
So I rest my case, like my car did as a NA, it sounds like ass.


Of course that is your opinion. But note that I said it sounds almost like the one in that vid. In that vid you can still hear the raspiness from the car a little bit. With my car you barely hear that N/A raspiness. I'm trying to find someone with a video camera so that I can make a vid so you guys can hear it.

And of course, the sound of this tip is open for debate. I like it, but that doesn't mean everyone will.
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1984 NA - 86T Front end conversion, intake, 2" exhuast w/ Apex'i Type R Muffler, 87T wing, clutch damper mod, e-fan conversion, 203,XXX miles
1985 NA - 4Sale, rolling chasis $200
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nismopu
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPt4ku4t_PI

it sounded like michaels but alot quieter IMO.
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michaelp
Loves thy '86


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to run a 2 1/4" with the stock cat, no muffler and a resonated tip, sounded ok, but mostly like my car now only quieter...
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Twisted`Z
I know some things Z31


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
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Location: Sierra Vista, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I need to pull my cat off because the exhuast is starting to smell funny, but I know if I pull the cat off, its gonna make the car sound like shit... I could always replace it with a new cat...
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1984 NA - 86T Front end conversion, intake, 2" exhuast w/ Apex'i Type R Muffler, 87T wing, clutch damper mod, e-fan conversion, 203,XXX miles
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ZpassionZ
Z31 Posted!


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
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Location: San Diego.CA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an n/a too but my exhaust works great! if i want to keep
the pressure for torque then upgrading seems useless....
would the best thing just be upgrading the cat only?
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DeleriousZ
Ruling with too much free time


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you still digging up old threads?
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michaelp
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZpassionZ wrote:
I have an n/a too but my exhaust works great! if i want to keep
the pressure for torque then upgrading seems useless....
would the best thing just be upgrading the cat only?


back pressure = bad

flow = good

flow makes power, a good exhaust on a NA won't make you lose torque.

I replied with that before, but for some reason its not there...
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FlyingT
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michaelp wrote:
ZpassionZ wrote:
I have an n/a too but my exhaust works great! if i want to keep
the pressure for torque then upgrading seems useless....
would the best thing just be upgrading the cat only?


back pressure = bad

flow = good

flow makes power, a good exhaust on a NA won't make you lose torque.

I replied with that before, but for some reason its not there...


Yeah, but I have read that too much flow is bad for torque in an NA. A good exhaust system is one that is properly sized for the engine size. A 4" exhaust on a Z31NA is not a good exhaust and should rob torque at low RPMs.
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Restore it, don't crush it. They don't make um like this anymore.

85 Z31T GL
K&N cone filter, HKS turbo back exhaust, Rebuilt engine, New T3 turbo, New engine wiring harness, Rebuilt T5 Transmission, Rebuilt rear diff and half shafts, KYB shocks, New brakes and rotors, Alba 15" wheels, Dunlop 245/50R15 tires, Poly front, rear and crossmember bushings, New steering rack, new alternator and battery, Xenon Urethane body kit, Mahogony steering wheel, 200 Watt Pioneer stereo system, new front fenders, rear quarter panels, rocker panels, passenger door, replaced front sub-frame/unibody, paint.

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michaelp
Loves thy '86


Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: West Chester, PA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyingT wrote:
michaelp wrote:
ZpassionZ wrote:
I have an n/a too but my exhaust works great! if i want to keep
the pressure for torque then upgrading seems useless....
would the best thing just be upgrading the cat only?


back pressure = bad

flow = good

flow makes power, a good exhaust on a NA won't make you lose torque.

I replied with that before, but for some reason its not there...


Yeah, but I have read that too much flow is bad for torque in an NA. A good exhaust system is one that is properly sized for the engine size. A 4" exhaust on a Z31NA is not a good exhaust and should rob torque at low RPMs.


a 4" exhaust wont flow well. Its all about the exhaust velocity, the faster the exhaust can escape the more power it will make.
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1stcar86z
Z31 posted (sort of)


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back pressure is not a bad thing. I went with a2.5 straight back no cat w/ a can on it. It was slower than stock untill I upgraded my Throttle body, Built an Intake system and Bored the plenum elbow. In my opinon it depends on how much air your intake side can move. Go from that to design your exhaust. You want bigger intake than exhaust for sure. And size doesnt matter on the exhaust side flow matters. If you have steps and areas that open up at the exhaust that are no chaphered you are limiting the size on the pipe by creating air turbulence there is less useable flow area. As well as bends. even mandrel bends cause turbulence just no as much. This turbulence helps add to the raspyness of the exhaust because the air is bouncing around in the pipes instead of flowing smoothly. i am no pro but my friend is a mechanical engineer and this is how it was explained to me.
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phxZ31
1985 N/A FTW!!!


Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1stcar86z wrote:
back pressure is not a bad thing. I went with a2.5 straight back no cat w/ a can on it. It was slower than stock untill I upgraded my Throttle body, Built an Intake system and Bored the plenum elbow. In my opinon it depends on how much air your intake side can move. Go from that to design your exhaust. You want bigger intake than exhaust for sure. And size doesnt matter on the exhaust side flow matters. If you have steps and areas that open up at the exhaust that are no chaphered you are limiting the size on the pipe by creating air turbulence there is less useable flow area. As well as bends. even mandrel bends cause turbulence just no as much. This turbulence helps add to the raspyness of the exhaust because the air is bouncing around in the pipes instead of flowing smoothly. i am no pro but my friend is a mechanical engineer and this is how it was explained to me.


Most of this is garbage. Some of it doesn't even make sense in a linguistic fashion.
Backpressure is bad, period.
Always want the intake bigger than the exhaust? This is also a load of crap.

In fact, like 99% of that post makes no sense whatsoever.
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DeleriousZ
Ruling with too much free time


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 10151
Location: Calgary, AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.z31performance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13866&hilit=backpressure

hate to link to outside threads but read up, and learn 1stcar86z

Quote:
Always want the intake bigger than the exhaust? This is also a load of crap.


on a turbo car i agree for the most part, however, the intake before the turbo should be at least the size of the exhaust if not larger.

in an n/a engine, which is just basically an air pump, the above statement is somewhat true imo. pumps ALWAYS require a larger suction tube than output (or exhaust) tube to prevent cavitation and other unhappy things. however in the engine's case it's just trying to get rid of the spent charge as quickly and easily as possible. the intake should be at least as large as the exhaust, otherwise it will become the limiting factor.
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michaelp
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1stcar86z wrote:
back pressure is not a bad thing. I went with a2.5 straight back no cat w/ a can on it. It was slower than stock untill I upgraded my Throttle body, Built an Intake system and Bored the plenum elbow. In my opinon it depends on how much air your intake side can move. Go from that to design your exhaust. You want bigger intake than exhaust for sure. And size doesnt matter on the exhaust side flow matters. If you have steps and areas that open up at the exhaust that are no chaphered you are limiting the size on the pipe by creating air turbulence there is less useable flow area. As well as bends. even mandrel bends cause turbulence just no as much. This turbulence helps add to the raspyness of the exhaust because the air is bouncing around in the pipes instead of flowing smoothly. i am no pro but my friend is a mechanical engineer and this is how it was explained to me.


Ok n00b. I had an '86 NA, stock exhaust had ok torque and no power up high. I replaced it with a 2.5" exhaust, no cat (2.5" pipe), and no muffler (also 2.5") with a 2.5" resonated tip. The low end power seemed slightly better than stock, and high end power kicked stocks ass.
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85_300ZXT
Z31 Frigging POWERHOUSE


Joined: 07 Jul 2007
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Location: Volga, SD

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Flybys-of-a-300zx-turbo_201460.htm
i have a turbo tho
but its a 3" no cat no muffler
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michaelp
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question172.htm

Quote:
During the exhaust stroke, a good way for an engine to lose power is through back pressure. The exhaust valve opens at the beginning of the exhaust stroke, and then the piston pushes the exhaust gases out of the cylinder. If there is any amount of resistance that the piston has to push against to force the exhaust gases out, power is wasted. Using two exhaust valves rather than one improves the flow by making the hole that the exhaust gases travel through larger.

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1stcar86z
Z31 posted (sort of)


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Location: Midlothian, VA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay so like i said i am no pro but this is how stuff was expained to me i was appartently wronge and i have since read the post article. But my car was defiantly slower with the 2.5 no cat, stock intake side (except for a can filter).
And mike you forgot to ask questions. so i will, were did your 2.5 start and did some of your y piping have to be replaced when your cat was removed? Did you have vac lines remove or were you stock on the intake side?
And i am sorry but the high end only made alot of noise after replacing the exhaust. I couldnt even keep up with my friends civic any more. Although i do agree that it increased the low-end torque a little.
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michaelp
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1stcar86z wrote:
okay so like i said i am no pro but this is how stuff was expained to me i was appartently wronge and i have since read the post article. But my car was defiantly slower with the 2.5 no cat, stock intake side (except for a can filter).
And mike you forgot to ask questions. so i will, were did your 2.5 start and did some of your y piping have to be replaced when your cat was removed? Did you have vac lines remove or were you stock on the intake side?
And i am sorry but the high end only made alot of noise after replacing the exhaust. I couldnt even keep up with my friends civic any more. Although i do agree that it increased the low-end torque a little.


Exhaust started as 2.5" right off the 2.5" Y-pipe. Intake was a red-neck custom I guess you could say...Laughing

Heres an oooold pic of my engine bay:


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1stcar86z
Z31 posted (sort of)


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Location: Midlothian, VA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah mine was cut off half way down the y pipe and was replaced with 1.5 to a new y to 2.5 so maybe the loss of back pressure/flow velocity was the difference in mine and yours and the reason mine. plus i had the full shitty intake w/ a pos can untill i built the new intake for it. ill post some pictures of the new intake. on the project area soon i have no pictures of my progress though.
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michaelp
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1stcar86z wrote:
yeah mine was cut off half way down the y pipe and was replaced with 1.5 to a new y to 2.5 so maybe the loss of back pressure/flow velocity was the difference in mine and yours and the reason mine. plus i had the full shitty intake w/ a pos can untill i built the new intake for it. ill post some pictures of the new intake. on the project area soon i have no pictures of my progress though.


You obviously haven't learned if you think back pressure makes horsepower.

And the stock Y-pipe is a 1.5" to 2.5" Y...
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